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Which Lathe Should I Buy?

5/10/2015

36 Comments

 
If you're like me, then you probably have a tool wish-list as long as your arm. You might even be spending a little too much time at Frank Hoose's Mini-lathe site. If you also have a stack of tool catalogs somewhere in the house, with dog-eared pages marking out your future purchases, then you are indeed a lost cause!

The very first tool purchase is kind of important though isn't it? It's the first big splash of cash, and because of its dominance in the shop, that first major tool will almost certainly be a lathe. You want one bad, but you don't want to blow you're hard earned on a piece of junk. There are so many to choose from, and you've heard so many bad stories about all of them.
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The day my SC4 arrived.

It's the question that vexed me for quite some time too, before I finally made a choice. It's also the most popular question in my inbox at the moment, so I thought it was about time I put together a more structured response. I'm also going to share with you what I think I might have done differently regarding my purchases, now that I know a little more.

By the way these are not recommendations or endorsements, it's just what I think and have learned through personal experience. No-one is paying me to suggest these products, it's just my personal opinion.

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Still so clean! That didn't last long.

Also I'm deliberately excluding the good quality "old iron" like second hand Myfords and South Bends etc from the discussion. Such machines are simply not available at a reasonable price in my part of the world, and I therefore have no experience to share.

I also think that many of you will be in the same position as me in terms of limited purchase options, so being told to simply get a good second hand Atlas or South Bend lathe is not really helpful advice.
For the initial purchase, I think it comes down to 3 things: Budget, Available Space and What Are You Going To Make?

Budget.

Naturally you can only spend what you have, but the good news is that most of the entry level lathes are quite affordable. The Sieg range starts at approximately the USD$600 mark, and the Sherline is similarly priced. The **Weiss rebrands (Optimum, Warco etc) are a little more expensive, and I wish I could give you more information on those because to be honest I get the feeling that the build quality is a little better than Sieg. But it could just be me falling for the glossy pictures. If you own a rebranded Weiss, let me know. (**Update Jan 2017 - I have pulled the trigger on one of these Weiss re-brands - will let you know all about it when it arrives)

Now for that sort of money you get a whole lot of tool, but as you are no doubt already aware, you often get a whole bunch of flaws too. I wrote about this a few weeks ago, so go and check that out if you have time, but the upshot is this: They have a lot of weak points, but it's not such a bad thing for a new machinist. 

Interestingly, spending more money does not necessarily equate to less flaws. My SC4 is not the entry level mini-lathe, and cost me about 3 times the Sherline, yet it's tailstock requires so much effort to align, that I go to the Sherline every time for really accurate work on small parts. However the SC4 takes beautiful smooth cuts, and its longer bed and power cross-feed is just wonderful.

Of course the budget also needs to extend to all of the tooling you'll need to do something useful, like tailstock accessories, cutting tools and perhaps a quick change tool post, so keep that in mind. Over time, you will easily spend the same amount on tooling, as you did on the lathe itself.

Available Space.

For many people, this is a non-issue, but for me it was a major decision factor. I work in a space that is basically a large cupboard, so I really couldn't contemplate anything larger than a 9x20 (and that was pushing it actually). So mark out your space, get some detail on the footprint of each of the options you are considering, and then reduce the list accordingly.

Be sure to also consider the space required to access the change gears, and perhaps have some longer stock running out of the headstock. The change gear covers usually require a bit of space to swing open, and it will really annoy you if you can't accommodate longer raw stock when you need to.

I love that I can store my little Sherline in a small cupboard, and just pull it out when I need it. I also love that I can slide my SC4 around to different positions in the shop, when the mood takes me. This is only possible with small benchtop models. 

Isn't bigger better? Yes it is in some respects. But once you've decided on the upper limit that you can accomodate based on the available space, I think the choice becomes more influenced by what you intend to make.

What Are You Going To Make?

This is really the heart of the matter. What size parts do you see yourself making? In my opinion, the scale of the machine should match the scale of the parts you will be making.

I didn't really appreciate this fully until I bought the Sherline.

I had been making everything on the SC4, and it wasn't until I started using the Sherline for the parts below 5mm that I realised how light and sensitive a small lathe could be. I also learned how important that was to the result. You can certainly make small parts on a larger lathe, but the feel through the hand-wheels on a small lathe is so much lighter, and delicate. It really does influence the way you make the cuts, and I find I do a better job.

Equally true is the fact that there is a limit to how large you can make something on any given lathe, if only because of the limit of the swing or bed length.

The SC4 is perfect for making clock parts. I rarely hit a limitation based on the size of the machine. I have on occasion needed extra bed swing, but it is rare - cutting the teeth for the large Wheel Skeleton Clock is the only example that comes to mind.

The point I really want to make here is that whilst you want to give yourself a nice range at the upper end of the machines capabilities, and it's tempting to just go for the biggest lathe you can afford, small parts really are easier to make on a smaller machine. 

By the way, I also have a cheap 9x20 that I picked up from a retired clockmaker. The quality on that one is a little patchy, so I really only keep it as a second operation lathe, and for items that need the extra bed swing.

Something else to consider:

Gear Head or Pulley Drive?


I have to admit I hadn't even considered this when I first purchased the SC4. It wasn't until I noticed a slight shimmer to the finish on my facing cuts that I learned about the benefits of a pulley drive lathe. What I was seeing was a micron level radial "wave" pattern on larger diameter facing cuts, being generated by the gear noise travelling down the spindle. The impact of each tooth meshing with its counterpart was actually printing on the work.

It's a common enough phenomenon to have been reported in even the best quality gear driven lathes, so it's not fair to blame the SC4 just because it's cheap, but it certainly did trouble me for a while before I figured out what it was.

Is it a problem? not really. Once I satisfied myself that it was just a fact of life of gear driven lathes, and not a faulty spindle, I just moved on.

But a pulley driven lathe doesn't exhibit this behaviour, and is much quieter when running, so keep it in mind.

So what would I do differently If I could?

First thing to say is that I am glad I pulled the trigger and just got myself the first lathe (an Sieg SC4). The time I could have spent further agonizing over which one to buy was much better spent machining, making mistakes and learning.

I think it's a great lathe, and is perfect for the scale of work that I do. But I must admit to recently being tempted to consider the pulley driven 9x20 Weiss with the power cross feed. It is similarly priced, and looks to have a slightly better build quality. If I had known about Weiss at the time I was selecting a lathe, I might have been swayed in that direction. However at the time I was setting up my shop, the Sieg brand was far more prevalent in my part of the world, and I just didn't know about it.

The only real issue I have with the SC4 is the tailstock - If I could confirm that the Weiss 9x20 tailstock will hold center more precisely than the SC4, I would probably let both the SC4 and the green 9x20 go, and replace it with that. In all likelihood though, it's made to the same standard, so I'm not really sweating it.

The Sherline is for me, irreplaceable. For the price it is an unbelievable little machine, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I was doing it all over again. Unlike most of the products I have mentioned in this post, it is made in the USA, and I think it shows.

Conclusion.

So which lathe should you buy? My suggestion is this: Filter through the options mentioned above, but don't put off the decision for too long. Just make a choice, and run with it. Even if it's not a keeper, you will learn an enormous amount, and have a heap of fun making something, until you settle on your long term beauty.

Thanks for dropping by,
Chris.
36 Comments
Andrew Robb link
5/8/2015 07:22:21 pm

Hi Chris,
I have been watching your videos for a while now but only just looked at your blog. Now I am not sure which I enjoy more. It is good that you are in Australia and can put a local spin on things.
Cheers
Franky

Reply
PJ link
5/13/2015 05:19:13 am

Hi Chris,
Great write up and fully agree with your 3pt considerations. I have learned so much from my peanut and worth the $150 I paid for it 10 fold in fun alone...let a lone what I've made that is useful with it. Even though I'm still working on my 14" bed & extended cross slide, I know when I get it done it will be nice, tight, and smooth running. Maybe not as good as your Sherline but good'nuff for me and my purposes. I wasn't going to clutter up your site with my blithering until I saw the link for the HLV-H which is also My ultimate dream machine. I think they may have broke the mold after they designed and built that one and may have wings folded in somewhere. Great Post, always a pleasure. ~PJ

Reply
Chein link
8/25/2015 08:42:32 pm

Hi Chris,
I have a Weiss WM210V-G and I'm having similar problem with my tailstock not holding center. I'm looking at the Seig thinking it's probably a better built machine, but after reading this post i guess you're right, they're both made pretty much to the same standard. My Sherline mill on the other hand is a delight. Been using it in a CNC set up for 4 years now without a single hitch. I live in Malaysia and it seems like we both have to make do with whatever limited tool choices we have in this part of the world. I really envy those americans.

Reply
PJ link
8/25/2015 09:07:33 pm

Hi Chein and Chris. I did some updates to my tail stock over time and it's been 100% better. https://sites.google.com/site/pjsminilathe/my-modifications/tail-stock-mods. Also regarding the Weis, I believe it is similar to the Optimus and my friend Jimmy in Greece has done some pretty awesome mods to his. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6fIAYgAY_o

Might take a look and solve some of your issues with the tail stock. Best wishes..~PJ

Reply
Chein
8/26/2015 07:51:11 pm

Thanks PJ! definitely gonna try the tail stock mod.

PJ link
8/26/2015 08:20:49 pm

Good Luck and have some fun!

Christopher
10/7/2016 01:18:23 pm

Chien, You live in Malaysia. Given the limited tool choices, training and info, I would be interested in meeting up with you and fellow-deprived persons because I have an ambition of learning basic machining after I retire, which is not too far away and I need some moral support. Thanks, My contact email: chris_guna@yahoo.com

Reply
Jim Porter
12/8/2015 05:18:41 am

Hi Chris,

Could you give more information on your Sherline, model etc. And did I see in one of your videos a WW collet set? if so how often do you use them and what sizes did you get. Any more info on the Sherline would be appreciated.

Reply
Chris link
12/8/2015 05:57:52 am

Hey Jim,

I have the 4100 manual metric model, and I've purchased about 25 of the collets. I've got a continuous set up to about 3/16" and then a few more of the commonly used sizes from there. Absolutely awesome little machine, highly recommend it.

Cheers,
Chris.

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Jim
12/9/2015 07:37:39 pm

Chris,

Any chance you could do either a blog entry or video review of each of your machines and your most used accessory for them, obviously starting with the Sherline. I have not really found any good quality reviews of the sherline (not recent ones anyway).

Kyle
3/9/2016 07:52:41 pm

Hello there, one question I had was on the noise level of these lathes. I live in an apartment and I am wondering if the SC4 would be too noisy for an apartment?

Thanks

Reply
Chris link
3/9/2016 09:51:25 pm

Hey Kyle,

I'd say that the SC4 is borderline, but the Sherline would be fine.

Cheers,
Chris.

Reply
Kyle
3/10/2016 07:51:39 am

Thank you for the info; what are your thoughts on the SC3? Is that one still borderline?

Thanks

Tools link
5/18/2016 08:19:07 pm

Hey would you mind letting me know which webhost you’re utilizing? I’ve loaded your blog in 3 completely different web browsers and I must say this blog loads a lot faster then most. Can you suggest a good internet hosting provider at a honest price? Thank you,I appreciate it! <a href="http://www.toolsavenue.com/">Power Tools</a>

Reply
Chris link
5/18/2016 08:49:45 pm

This is hosted on weebly.com - I highly recommend them. Very affordable, and an excellent content management system.

Cheers,
Chris

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Tony
6/11/2016 02:45:50 pm

Thank you Chris. I was just informed of your site and love the videos. I want to turn stainless steel in 1/2 inch diameters. Do you think the Sherline is capable of that? Thank you.

Reply
Moglix link
7/11/2016 05:10:20 pm

Before buying you should go for online reviews and experienced shared by the used on various platform. After reading the reviews you'll be able to choose the right lathe by right brand and model for reliable work.

Reply
david pierce link
9/6/2016 04:16:11 am

Chris,
I believe all of the machines in your SC4 series are made by a company called Central Machinery. I used to own an Atlas 12" lathe and couldn't stand it. It had a T bed design which made it impossible to properly adjust the carriage to the bed. I sold it and bought a 9" lathe (due to space issues) made by Central Machinery and have been happy with the lathe. If I had the space I would have purchased a 14" or a 15" lathe but the 9" has done an OK job. The V bed design of these machines is better because it transfers the wear of the bed and carriage downward instead of sideways. I paid about $1000.00 (US) for the lathe about 20 years ago and it still runs like a new machine.
david

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John Weaver
12/26/2016 08:37:55 am

Hi Chris.
I just received my sc4 which I am so far happy with.Just wondering how you find the sieg quick change tool post.
Thanks
John

Reply
Chris link
12/26/2016 09:19:45 am

Hey John,

The stock SIEG toolpost will drive you mad - I immediately replaced mine with a wedge style Phase2 AXA.

http://www.phase2plus.com/details.asp?pr=QUICK_CHANGE_TOOL_SETS&id=52

It required milling out the toolholders a bit because it sits slightly above centerline, and also required a new top slide post. But well worth the effort.

Cheers,
Chris.

Reply
jaya singh link
1/21/2017 10:05:12 pm

Thanks for the information you provide such a nice ideas .

Reply
Martin
1/24/2017 06:18:38 am

Hi Chris, what miller do you use? Looking to buy one and can't make out what you use.
Think the craftsmanship is awesome!

Martin

Reply
Chris link
1/24/2017 07:05:11 am

Hey Martin,

I have an SX3 mill - works well for the scale of work that I do :)

Cheers,
Chris.

Reply
Salko Safic link
2/4/2017 06:59:51 pm

I'm missing something here, I'm trying to locate the Weiss you suggested, all I got was there non functioning website and I tried opening their page through edge as well so this time round it isn't something on my end. I've looked through eBay as well, I was surprised to see the seig models priced under $700. I honestly thought I was in over my head but I can see they are reasonably priced. Do you have a link to where I can see this weiss model you were referring too.

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Chris link
2/4/2017 07:26:34 pm

Hey Salko,

Link working fine for me - local supplier for the Weiss re-brands is http://www.engtooling.com/

Cheers,
Chris,

Reply
Salko Safic link
2/4/2017 09:01:17 pm

Thanks Chris! The price difference is enormous and this whole thing is really doing my head in. The Sherline and Weiss are both similarly priced on their websites but on eBay it's $1300 less for the SC3. Did I mix that up is the SC3 a sherline? I've been staring at the screen for a half a day and I'm all wonky. I really don't know in what direction to turn. All I want to do is make tool components for hand tools for woodworking and mechanical movements for clocks. I want something small like yours that's not going to hog precious shop space.

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Ian
4/12/2017 05:18:42 pm

I totally agree with the last paragraph about buying something and start learning. My 1st one and I still have it is a Chinese 9x20, I learned so much more being hands on, than watching videos. Now I have an Aussie made New Gregco 8x17 thats 70 yrs old. Not as fast as the 9x20 but much nicer in every way, nice and quiet too. But something like that doesn't come up as soon as you start looking.

Another benefit to buying anything and start machining is you learn what features matter most to you, and what features you can live without. Because unless you have lots of money you have to live without some features.

Reply
Paul Francis Madden
5/5/2017 06:31:51 am

Hi Chris,

This was a really excellent post and your blog is a great supplement for viewers with a greater curiosity.

I really enjoyed reading your impressions on the different lathes you own.

I'm curious to learn more about your SIEG CQ6125 lathe, especially in what situations you would choose, or are required to use it over the SIEG SC4.

I re-watched all the videos you posted on the clock build, and I could only see you use it for machining the barrel and covers, and also for the inner and outer chapter rings.

Did you choose to use the CQ6125 because the diameter of these components were outside the capacity of the SC4?

Also, you produced several large diameter aluminium cement chucks to support the large brass discs for wheels and the chapter rings, etc.

Did you produce these on the CQ6125?

Finally, would it be fair to say that the advantage of the CQ6125 was not necessarily to machine the actual clock components, but to produce items necessary for the clock build?

Chris, many thanks again for creating such a wonderful platform for discussion.

Best wishes,

Paul

Reply
Chris link
5/5/2017 07:52:53 am

Hey Paul,

The CQ lathe came as part of a second hand deal from a retiring clockmaker who was selling all of his tools. Its got a few accuracy issues, so I don't use it much but you are correct - its essential for the tasks that you identified that require the larger swing, like cutting teeth on the great wheel and test fitting the same wheel to the barrel for the Large Wheel Skeleton clock.

Its a luxury, but a 2nd operation lathe is a very convenient thing to have. There are many times when you have a lathe set up for a particular task, and you need something else made but don't want to break down the set up.

Cheers,
Chris.

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Paul Francis Madden
5/6/2017 02:00:12 am

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the information on the CQ6125. It had piqued my curiosity as I had read about it in one of your earlier blogs, but couldn't identify it without further scrutiny of your videos.

I completely understand your point on having a second lathe, especially one which can cater for those occasional larger diameter pieces.

Your remark on having a second lathe in order to prevent disturbing your primary lathe is completely valid, and could potentially save hours of time investment if you were forced to remove a workpiece and lose the centering at a critical moment.

You answered my questions Chris!

By the way, I clicked on the link you placed for the HARDINGE HLV-H Lathe. I'm speechless...

Thanks once again Chris for sharing experience.

Best wishes

Paul.

Urjakart link
9/16/2017 10:01:34 pm

nice article

Reply
Electrical Discharge Machining link
9/17/2017 10:22:28 pm

Wire-cut or die-sink electrical discharge machining can be an economical solution for manufacturing complex parts. Wire-cut electrical discharge machining:.

Reply
Jimmy
10/4/2017 11:11:22 pm

Do you know of an EDM machine that would be affordable for a hobbyist?

Reply
Dan Sanford
12/30/2017 02:31:00 pm

Mr. Chris. Are you having trouble truing up the tailstock or just holding position of the tailstock?

When I bought my Grizzly 9 x 20 the first thing the instructions told me to do was take a light cut on diameter with tailstock clamped. Judge which way and how far to adjust tailstock by measuring diameter at both ends. Good travel indicator on tailstock, move tailstock half of diam. Difference. (Closer toward operator if tailstock end of cut is larger than spindle side and away from operator if tailstock side is smaller dia. Than spindle side)

Reply
Chris link
12/30/2017 05:31:18 pm

Hey Dan,

It's more about repeatability - the alignment can be set, but will not hold within a reasonable tolerance on subsequent repositioning. It is a common design flaw in the Chinese lathes (and can be improved with some modification) but there are easy workarounds for when it really matters :)

Cheers,
Chris.

Reply
Dan Sanford
12/31/2017 10:13:13 am

I think Mr. Steve bedair from "STEVE BEDAIRS WEBSITE 9x20 lathe" may have a nice design mod for that issue.




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